Curse

Ensign · Feb 09, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

I dunno, maybe it's from those times I went to tombs at level 15 with default everything and still compete and won on teams with other level 15's

So your argument is that people are terrible at Guild Wars, and thus competitive imbalance isn't an issue?

How about this one then - I sat in the Hall of Heroes for over three hours playing man down. Obviously fielding a full team of eight people isn't that important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

I don't see the minor difference of an item as a big deal

You don't see 25% differences in damage output, coupled with doubled energy regenration as being a big deal? You don't understand how that could possibly make a difference in a match between teams of equal skill?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

but if you're looking for a scapegoat for your PvP losses then by all means, use weapon stats.

Ah, yes, when in doubt break out the Ad Hominem. Obviously we're talking about a potentially serious balance issue because I'm looking for something to blame losses in PvP on. My mistake, kunt0r is obviously right, items in Guild Wars don't matter in the slightest.

*rollseyes*

Brett Kuntz · Feb 09, 2005, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Unless they've completely changed the entire item system in the last month, I have no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.gwforum.ca/img/x800/0165.jpg

That's the best hammer I got during Oct I believe, before they doubled weapon damage. Wars in my guild had better hammers then me. You act like these god items never drop. Ohhhh someone has to farm to get something that max stated, or, you can hunt for half a day and get an item thats 1 point off being a max uber ultra turbo stated item. Sure Ensign, maybe them turbo weapons you speak of are 1 in a million, but items that are 1 notch below are more like 1 in 10. That one notch isn't going to make or break you, it'll slightly help you, but if you're whining because you want a 100% fair game...then games and competetion aren't for you.

Hell, maybe that sword doesn't even exist, or maybe it was an accident yet to be removed. If there is an item imbalance, you'd bet Anet would hear about it mighty fast.

Feb 09, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Kunt0r, its not really the damage ranges that's the problem, it's the item mods. By all accounts that hammer that you posted isnt even close to being "good" since all it has going for it is the damage bonus and +1 to Hammer skills while in use %.

Scrivener · Feb 09, 2005, 10:15 AM // 10:15

My opinion is that that sword is definitely imbalanced, mainly due to the energy gain. There are a lot of things you can do with that much energy coming in. The high damage bonus just makes things that much worse. However, I believe that such a weapon would not be possible at the moment, in my recent experience at least.

Hate to say it kunt0r but that hammer of yours is sucky - not sure why you posted it. -2 health regen is asking to die. Work out the extra damage you get from 16% damage and 14% chance of +1 Hammer Mastery and compare it to 24% constant damage boost. Even with 10% fewer criticals the sword is much better. (If general critical chance is 20%, that sword would lower it to 18% I think - I know my sword with -33% critical from two disadvantages still does a decent number of crits)

Ensign · Feb 09, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

For reference, the max natural hammer damage from the time when that screenshot was taken was roughly 12-20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

You act like these god items never drop.

They do drop, but very, very rarely. That's why there are bots out pharming them, because players don't see one drop within hours, or even days of playing. From what you're saying, you've never even seen a top notch item. That's the entire problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

If there is an item imbalance, you'd bet Anet would hear about it mighty fast.

Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Again, the problem isn't just item imbalance, it's item *scarcity*. Alpha testers don't have access to these items. Some of the best items in the game at this very instant have likely never even been played with, because they simply don't drop often enough for people to have them to test.

Are little differences in items going to be a big deal? No. The difference between a 15-22 sword, and a 14-22 sword is negligible - it's a disadvantage but not a meaningful one. On the other hand, not having access to +energy per hit mods is backbreaking. There's a mantra of 'player skill matters, not items' that doesn't stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. The fact is that items do, indeed matter. How much do they matter? We really don't know, because it isn't being tested significantly, and because comments about equipment dependence get dismissed out of hand.

Ultimately, the goal is to create a game where there isn't a significant item grind, where rare item mods are nothing more than incidental bonuses that don't swing matches. But in order for that to be a reality, we need to recognize what we currently have, and what has to change in order for the ideal to be a reality.

Peace,
-CxE

Lamaros · Feb 09, 2005, 11:30 AM // 11:30

I'm going to have to support Ensign here.

As much as I like the idea of rare, hard to get, weapons from a PvM standpoint (though I would prefer they get awarded from acomplishment, like finishing a mission in under a set time, than semi-random drops), weapons like the one he stated will definatly create imbalance if they are that hard to get.

That said, it wont matter for most people, as most people, no matter how good their items are, will get destroyed by a good team. It is when two equaly skilled teams face off against each other that these items will come in to play.

The proposed solution, to make weapons upgradeable only through salvaging one modifer weapons, and to remove the rarer 2 and 3 modifier weapons from the game, seems a reasonable one.

Ensign · Feb 09, 2005, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Well, there clearly is a balance. On one hand, you want things to be as balanced and accessable as possible for PvP, so that player skill can determine winners instead of letting superior gear cover up mistakes. Nothing is worse than losing an otherwise even match because one side had items that make them faster and more efficient. You don't learn anything, you can even use identical tactics, but end up getting rolled because of the discrepencies.

But on the other side, you don't want everything to be *too* accessable. People do love collecting and showing off their equipment, and a thriving economy is definitely a good thing. You don't get trade when you can just go out and find everything you need in ten minutes, after all.

There is a balance here, and while the balance lies much closer to abundance than in other MMOs you still need to have scarcity to keep the equipment fiends interested.

What this means is that the best, the most game breaking upgrades, anything that a player would want to build around, should be a weapon upgrade. As has been mentioned, weapon upgrades are a great solution for providing access to good items because they're so tradable - you can get all the pieces individually, and put them all together to make a fine, PvP ready weapon.

What should be rare are minor, cosmetic modifiers, and more importantly, vanity.

Of the people you see posting on boards looking for items, how many are looking for a good sword, and how many are looking for a good *Dragon Sword*?

Dragon Swords aren't any better than any other sword type - statistically, they're identical. But they're insanely popular, rare weapon drops that a large segment of the population wants. Their presence doesn't affect PvP players in the slightest, but it gives those item fiends something to strive for.

Minor modifiers on weapons are generally ok. The problem arises when those mods end up being something that you can build around, even if it is innocuous.

The best example of this I know of is a Warrior/Necromancer build that leans heavily upon a particular item for its effectiveness. The build in question is based upon keeping several Life Siphons going simultaneously, powered by Warrior's Endurance. Now, to get that third pip out of Life Siphon you need a level 12 Blood Magic, which puts you into an ugly 12 Blood / 10 Weapon / 8 Strength setup - turning into 12/12/9 with minor runes. For a character that wants to really max out Warrior's Endurance, 9 Strength is pretty suboptimal.

However, add a Strength based, +1 Life Siphon shield, and suddenly this character can shift into a 11 Blood / 10 Weapon / 10 Strength setup - 12 Life Siphon/12 Weapon/11 Strength overall. The rather innocuous +1 to Blood when using Life Siphon modifier is effectively +2 to Strength on this build. I don't think I have to explain why +2 to an attribute at no cost is absurdly good.

The problem, of course, is finding that shield, which is admittedly going to be a colossal task. But the build almost depends upon it for functionality.

It's builds like this, that feed so heavily upon very specific pieces of equipment, that concern me. What if this build ends up being the next big thing? You can get the armor and skills for this guy a thousand times before you find the key shield that makes the whole character hum. Is that a good thing for a game that isn't supposed to reward time spent playing?

I don't know how you address all of these concerns, and I'm interested to see how it ends up being done.

Peace,
-CxE

Scaphism · Feb 09, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Kunt0r, that hammer is rare, but it's not the kind of rare that's being discussed right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunt0r

Hell, maybe that sword doesn't even exist, or maybe it was an accident yet to be removed. If there is an item imbalance, you'd bet Anet would hear about it mighty fast.

This thread is trying to raise issues that are relevant because they have been brought to ANet's attention and still haven't been addressed adequately.

The concern is with an item that's so rare that the game only procudes less than one per day. That's not one per person per day. We don't even really know how often it comes up, but we do know they exist. They exist, and they unbalance the game, because if my entire team has twice the energy your team has, that's no longer a small advantage, and a sword that gives +1 energy on hit does that. If my entire team is doing +46% of the listed damage with a sword and no one on your team has that +46% damage, it's a huge advantage.

We need to be stomping our feet and making a fuss- we're the ones who need to tell ANet about the imbalance, because they (should) already know about it, yet the problem still exists. To use a simple analogy, it's like driving the wrong way down a one way street- sure you might not see the cars now, but you're definitely going to get into a head on collision unless you change what you're doing. (i.e. Maybe you're not fighting teams with the uber-equipment yet, but they're coming around the corner.)

cpukilla · Feb 09, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I largely disagree that items are badly imbalanced. What I do agree with is that + energy on hit weapons are out of wack. Its essentially giving warriors +2 pips while in combat and -1 pip out of combat (if using frenzy ect.). It doubles their energy regen and gives them as much energy generation as a caster. I don't think anyone would be happy about seeing +2 or even +4 energy regen on caster items, but thats what warriors get with +energy weapons.

But other than that, I do not see the big imbalance with +25% damage. It sounds like a lot, but considering that it would not be too difficult to find a +15 or +20% item, its still a gradual increase. I really like the idea of using + life siphon mods, because it really lets you customize your equipment to your build. Its pretty rare that a build depends on such an item, and in general I think its a very nice mechanism to differentiate builds without giving (in almost all cases) overpowering advantages.

FrogDevourer · Feb 09, 2005, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Once again an interesting thread to read. Thanks to all contributors.

Charles, are you sure the problem comes from item rarity ? If item/mod drops are dramatically increased so that all players have access to the best mod combinations, things won't get better. You'll just obtain a dull environment where all warriors wear the same equipment and where minor mods are frowned upon.

I have the impression that the current incarnations of a few mods are simply overpowered : what makes the +1 energy very strong is that it's a strong and reliable energy source. If it was nerfed to xx% chance of gaining 1 energy (xx being high enough to make the mod desirable without being broken) or restricted to slow weapons, I don't think that would be such a problem. The same stands for other powerful mods. Slam a xx% chance on them and you can't rely too much on them.

Statistically speaking that would translate into turning down their efficiency by replacing an integer by a real number (i.e removing the integer step effect): +1 is too much, so what about +0.6 or even +0.5 ? The transition between a sexy mod and a dull one would become blurry and harder to figure out.

I agree there can be a balance issue for a handful of runes. Vigor is the most obvious one. Basically any mod that is useful to *any* character or even to any character in a given profession (storage come to mind) is bad, if only because you'll find it all PvP characters (top player or not). Mods shouldn't be generic and they shouldn't be powerful enough to build a character upon (e.g : Illusion runes to reach the latest step for Distorsion).

I agree that most if not all mods should be available through components and runes (and they shouldn't stack). Finding a good weapon would remain useful but probably not as mandatory as it is now. But keep in mind that you're just shifting the problem onto component balance/scarcity. If all mods are available on components, then everybody will desperately look for generic mods such as +xx% dmg or energy gain.

IMO, the basic statement "skill not equipment" cannot really be achieved if you keep the current mod system. To have a truly balanced environment in PvP, weapons should be either entirely blank with the same stats or craftable like armors.

Otherwise, you'll always have a mod combination better than others. Nerfing the most overpowered mods is a quick fix, but the core of the issue stated by Saus will remain. Top PvP players will always have to hunt for the best equipment, if only to get 5, 2 or even 1% more dmg.

Personally I'm in favor of the current system, since it looks like a good compromise between PvP and PvE. But I think that mods should be revisited and hopefully balanced a little more (if I recall correctly, they have been introduced recently during WPE).

Most importantly generic effects should be removed entirely in favor or narrower effects with % conditions (no more integer steps).

Brett Kuntz · Feb 09, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Kunt0r, its not really the damage ranges that's the problem, it's the item mods. By all accounts that hammer that you posted isnt even close to being "good" since all it has going for it is the damage bonus and +1 to Hammer skills while in use %.

That hammer would be 20-34 dmg + 52% now, as it wasn't even customized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrivener

My opinion is that that sword is definitely imbalanced, mainly due to the energy gain. There are a lot of things you can do with that much energy coming in. The high damage bonus just makes things that much worse. However, I believe that such a weapon would not be possible at the moment, in my recent experience at least.

Hate to say it kunt0r but that hammer of yours is sucky - not sure why you posted it. -2 health regen is asking to die. Work out the extra damage you get from 16% damage and 14% chance of +1 Hammer Mastery and compare it to 24% constant damage boost. Even with 10% fewer criticals the sword is much better. (If general critical chance is 20%, that sword would lower it to 18% I think - I know my sword with -33% critical from two disadvantages still does a decent number of crits)

Double up them stats and thats what it would be now.

~~~~~~~~~~

I'm not saying I want items to matter, I just don't want them to be these perfectly balanced things. Odd differences in them that give slight advantage are what makes hunting hours on end for the 'perfect' weapon fun. But, it still lets people who only hunt to get to level 20 still compete, as they should have all the appropriate equipment when they do reach ascension.

Narcism · Feb 09, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

I largely disagree that items are badly imbalanced. What I do agree with is that + energy on hit weapons are out of wack. Its essentially giving warriors +2 pips while in combat and -1 pip out of combat (if using frenzy ect.). It doubles their energy regen and gives them as much energy generation as a caster. I don't think anyone would be happy about seeing +2 or even +4 energy regen on caster items, but thats what warriors get with +energy weapons.

You'll notice how balanced and not "out of whack" +1 energy / hit -1 energy degen swords are. As soon as you get (or your target gets):

Guardian, Shield of Deflection, Whirling Defense, Ward against Melee, etc etc.
Faintheartedness, Shadow of Fear...

Suddenly.. you would have much preferred the non-energy on hit sword.

Feb 09, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

That hammer would be 20-34 dmg + 52% now, as it wasn't even customized.

You quoted it as being godly in that Screen Shot though

Narcism · Feb 09, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

If that was before weapon damage was doubled (or whatever)... why is it hammer mastery 5.. ? And there's -2 Health Degen, looks balanced to me even if it would have been doing 34 max damage.

Feb 09, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

That hammer that Kunt0r posted wasnt imbalanced at all. It was that Kunt0r claimed that you could find the items Charles was talking about and posted that SS, which wasnt one of the items in question. -2 hp degen on a warrior is asking for trouble anyways

Ensign · Feb 09, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

That hammer would be 20-34 dmg + 52% now, as it wasn't even customized.

Uh, no. Weapon damage wasn't straight doubled then - and they've been knocked down a notch since then. Quite a few notches, actually.

Today that would look something like:

+36% Damage
Health Regen -2
+1 Hammer Mastery (14% Chance when using skills)
Fire Damage: 15-29
Customized

Which certainly isn't *bad* for only having a 5 prereq, but I certainly wouldn't want to PvP with it - hell, even a normal, max damage (19-35) hammer would be better, as it would deal more damage and it wouldn't have the elemental drawback.

If you want the 'current' stats for an item from that BWE, add around 70% to the damage rating. That doesn't address some of the horrendously overpowered mods that you used to be able to find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

I just don't want them to be these perfectly balanced things. Odd differences in them that give slight advantage are what makes hunting hours on end for the 'perfect' weapon fun.

I can relate to that, and really, you're never going to have perfectly balanced items. Diversity and balance are enemies and you're constantly having to fight to get them to mesh as a game designer.

The point of this is that the rare weapons that you have to hunt for weeks to find shouldn't do anything so special that they'd be considered mandatory by one build or another. I think a great example of a mod like that is the wand/staff mod '10% chance of fast skill recharge'. Is it a nice bonus to have? Certainly - sometimes you'll have an extra option available that you didn't plan on. But that's the whole idea - you didn't plan on it, because you couldn't. If you make that mod '10% faster skill recharge', then everyone needs it to be competitive because it lets you work around the drawbacks on all of your skills, compressing builds in the process. As is, it's just a nice bonus that no one can plan for, which makes it a beautifully designed modifier.

If that's what modifiers are going to look like, I have no problem with items having inherent mods. It's when they start having character-altering affects that I start to care, because then scarcity and competitive balance clash and balance needs to win out.

[color=red]double posted :[/color]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Charles, are you sure the problem comes from item rarity ? If item/mod drops are dramatically increased so that all players have access to the best mod combinations, things won't get better.

I think that both modifier imbalance and item accessability are problems, and the latter makes solving the former that much more difficult.

There are certainly some sickeningly good modifiers out there. Probably too good. But that isn't getting tested, because testers don't have access to those items - because they're rare drops. PvP characters don't take equipment into account at all - they're just level 20s with skill access and some basic equipment. What are the best mods? How important are items? No one really knows because it hasn't been tested.

But let's say that the ridiculous mods are all knocked down, and that every modifier available on a weapon is reasonably balanced. You still have problems because diversity is inherently unbalanced. There will be different characters who want different modifiers - just as there are characters who want different skills - but getting the *right* modifiers can be just as crucial as getting the right skills. You can't just go to a skill vendor or get someone to craft you a charm to find the right item for your build - you have to find the right item type with the right mods spawned in place, and with the wide variety of items available that's quite a task.

As I mentioned, the best example of these are the +1 to a skill mods. Do those even resemble something unbalanced? No. They're prefectly fair modifiers, and their existence adds to the game by making people re-evaluate how they build their characters. What's the problem then? The fact that there are no less than 450 +1 to a skill modifiers, and you have to find exactly the right one on the right item if you want to make use of it.

Right now people don't really think about their equipment too much, in no small part because they don't know what's available. +1 to a specific skill frees up attribute points from lines that you're taking for a small number of skills. There's a weapon upgrade that grants you +20% enchantment duration. There are modifiers that give you significant damage boosts under controllable conditions, such as being enchanted or in a stance. These mods might very well be fair and balanced - but they definitely affect the way you look at skills and build characters. If skills were as hard to find as some of those items are, people would be throwing fits.

The biggest culprit isn't item modifiers, but allowing multiple modifiers per item. Couple that with the fact that rares almost always spawn with item upgrades in place - which cannot be removed - and the odds of getting an item with the right mods, and not being gunked up by bad upgrade parts, are abysmal. If a good rare item had one modifier, and you could usually upgrade them with the parts of your choice, I don't think things would be too problematic. It's when you start stacking everything together, two modifiers, two upgrades in place, that your item system starts to look like Diablo II, with people trying to find rares with a bunch of good mods. It's a grindfest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

I agree there can be a balance issue for a handful of runes. Vigor is the most obvious one.

I don't see the vigor runes as being a significant balance issue, because I expect them to be accessable - just like all upgrade parts, really. Salvaging high level armors yields a rune a surprising percentage of the time, and vigors pop out just like everything else. Are they high demand items? Certainly. But they're going to be available once people get a chance to play the game for more than three days. As it stands I kinda think of vigor runes as the Stones of Jordan of Guild Wars - valuable, scarce, but common enough to be used as currency in high value transactions. At least that's how I'll be using mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Most importantly generic effects should be removed entirely in favor or narrower effects with % conditions (no more integer steps).

I don't know that I agree with this. You need to have enough balanced mods to make the choice of which to use non-trivial, however.

Say, for example, that all of the following were possible modifiers for sword hilts:

+10% damage
+7% attack speed
+5% armor penetration
+3 health per hit
25% chance of +1 energy per hit
33% faster adrenaline gain

Then on the pommel you put something like:

+30 health
+4 defense
+8 defense vs. physical
+8 defense vs. elemental
+20% enchantment duration

(ok, so those are the good pommels that currently exist. humor me)

What sword do you make? Even though each of those is a straightforward bonus, I think you can make a case for making every one of the thirty possible weapons just using those mods. I don't think a system like that would be abusive at all, and would lead to an economy of weapon upgrades as people traded to assemble the right weapon for their class. Compare that to the current system of searching for a rare weapon with the right two mods, and I think the difference is clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

You'll notice how balanced and not "out of whack" +1 energy / hit -1 energy degen swords are.

That brings us to another topic that Saus didn't touch on too much in the first post - weapon swapping.

You don't have to commit yourself to using a weapon that's situationally amazing - you have access to four weapon sets and you should be using every one of them. When your target is vulnerable to energy gain weapons, you swap that one in and beat the tar out of him. Is he protected by a bunch of defensive buffs? Swap in an armor penetration weapon. Getting focus fired? In comes the +defense, lifegain sword. A good player isn't just going to have one weapon, he's going to have several that he switches between as the situation warrants.

What is the energy capacity of a well equipped Monk? 40? 42? Try 62. Normally, you're working with your standard 42 energy capacity. But when crunch time comes and you're up against the wall, you quickswap into your other set - a +10 energy, -1 regen wand and focus. Suddenly, at the cost of temporarily losing some regen, you instantly have access to 20 energy, four more heals, which can easily be enough to turn the battle around. Once you've worked through the crunch, just swap back to your normal gear and let the regen work. Is that going to win you every battle? Of course not. But it's a significant edge, one that no healer should be without.

The fact that competitive players don't just have one optimal weapon, but that they carry *several*, should reinforce just how critical item selection can be - and why access to those items is an important part of maintaining competitive balance.

Peace,
-CxE

FrogDevourer · Feb 09, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I think that both modifier imbalance and item accessability are problems, and the latter makes solving the former that much more difficult.

There are certainly some sickeningly good modifiers out there. Probably too good. But that isn't getting tested, because testers don't have access to those items - because they're rare drops.

If by scarcity you meant alpha scarcity, then I wholeheartedly agree with you. But after this playtesting phase, scarcity becomes much less relevant than balance between mods.

Some skills are incredibly hard to find (i.e: exotic crafter only). Is this a problem ? Certainly if you're considering the characters diversity. But as long as these rare skills are not stronger than regular ones, it's not really a problem for competitivity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

But let's say that the ridiculous mods are all knocked down, and that every modifier available on a weapon is reasonably balanced.

...

... that your item system starts to look like Diablo II, with people trying to find rares with a bunch of good mods. It's a grindfest.

Agreed. Once again I certainly agree that having mods available as components would be good for customization. Yet as long as these mods have been balanced that is not a big issue.

Sure, one could complain that you'll still have to grind for hours to find the ultimate weapon. That is also why I agree that every mod should be available through runes. Simply because you can make your custom weapon instead of grinding for your dream item. But if ultimate in GW means +1% efficiency, I won't mind.

A lot of players are looking for this kind of grind. If they're happy finding an "optimal" weapon to use/sell, then good for them. As long as it's not your average uber D2 weapon, I'm fine with that. Again, this is acceptable only once overpowered mods have been nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't see the vigor runes as being a significant balance issue, because I expect them to be accessable - just like all upgrade parts, really.

The problem with Vigor runes is that they are useful to all characters. +50 hp is not something you can ignore. So basically all competitive players will use a vigor rune. It's a clear indication that there is a problem with this item. As long as it's generic enough to be used by anybody, it kills diversity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't know that I agree with this. You need to have enough balanced mods to make the choice of which to use non-trivial, however.

Say, for example, that all of the following were possible modifiers for sword hilts:
...
What sword do you make?

Hmm... Probably the sword with the 2 mods on top of your comparison table.

Seriously, you don't pick mods that way. Instead, you make a build, look at your strategy+skillset, crunch a few numbers and you'll easily find the perfect mod for you.

Playing with illusionary weapon ? then pick weapon speed !
Need adrenaline to fuel your skills ? then pick the adrenaline mod !
Relying on enchant buffs ? then pick enchantment duration !

These mods are way too generic and too straightforward. It's easy to find the right mod for your build. It's also why I'm not confortable with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

you have access to four weapon sets and you should be using every one of them.

Indeed.

IMHO, that feature should never have made it to the beta phase. You can't swap a skill but you can change your weapon mods !

As for the energy thingy, I thought this bug had been fixed (+10 max energy but no more free energy). Is it still in the game ?

Pharalon · Feb 10, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

As for the energy thingy, I thought this bug had been fixed (+10 max energy but no more free energy). Is it still in the game ?

It's not a bug, it's the way things work. +health/energy add to both your current and max. When you unequip, it subtracts from both. So you're at 0 en, swap in a +10 rod, you're at 10en. Cast a 10en spell, then swap back to a high regen rod, and you're at -10 energy.

FrogDevourer · Feb 10, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharalon

It's not a bug, it's the way things work. +health/energy add to both your current and max. When you unequip, it subtracts from both. So you're at 0 en, swap in a +10 rod, you're at 10en. Cast a 10en spell, then swap back to a high regen rod, and you're at -10 energy.

I guess using 'bug' was a bad idea. What I meant is that the concept is flawed and abusive. It should be fixed by +/-10 max energy (you don't gain/lose energy by equiping an item).

Pharalon · Feb 10, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

I guess using 'bug' was a bad idea. What I meant is that the concept is flawed and abusive. It should be fixed by +/-10 max energy (you don't gain/lose energy by equiping an item).

Why is it abusive? You're just taking out an "energy loan", which you have to pay back eventually. If you don't work it that way, you'll make many skills almost obsolete. Endure Pain, Demonic Flesh etc etc all become useless.